07 September 2019

Renewing French residence cards (4)

Read part 3 of this series here.

After we had made the decision to apply for renewal of our resident alien status — that's what it's called in the U.S., I think — instead of applying for French citizenship, and had scheduled our rendez-vous with the people at the préfecture in Blois, we had to carry through. We had, or thought "we" had, a morning appointment on September 3 to turn in our papers.

Just a couple of days before the rendez-vous date, it occurred to me that since Walt had actually scheduled the appointment, my name might not be on it. Well, I was right — it wasn't. In the past, back more than 10 years ago, the people a the préfecture, and also at the offices of the French Sécurité Sociale (which runs the national health insurance service) had always dealt with us as a couple, even though, legally, we weren't. After living together as a couple since 1983, we and people like us weren't allowed to get married until five or six years ago. It hadn't occurred to either of us that we would need separate appointments at the préfecture.

So when we got there and had waited in line for 10 minutes or so, we found out that that was exactly the case. The very officious, self-important woman who checked people in for their appointments looked at the printout of the rendez-vous confirmation, looked at us, and asked which one of us it was for. We said it was for both of us. We told her we were a married couple. That doesn't matter, she said — one appointment, one person. Whose name is this on the paper? Walt said it was his. The woman looked at me and said I would have to go back home and make an appointment in my own name before I could turn in my application and the supporting documents. Damn! Isn't it ironic that before we were legally married, we were treated as a couple, and now that we actually are married we are not?

Here's a North Carolina postcard for today.

This was the woman who had told me on the phone back in June that I didn't really need a carte de résident. I recognized her voice and manner. Even without a card, or with an expired one, she said, I would still be able to move around freely in France. The problem is that over the past few years, at CDG airport as I was getting ready to fly out on a trip to the States, on at least one or maybe two occasions the agents who check passports had scanned my U.S. passport, looked up at me, and asked me to produce my French carte de résident. Luckily, I had it with me, and I showed it, and all went smoothly. I don't know what they would have done if I had said that I hadn't thought to bring it with me. Or if I showed them an expired card.

So there I was. The préfecture receptionist was really officious, almost obnoxious, but I have to say she was very complimentary to Walt about how well he spoke French. That's always a nice thing for people to say. He gave her the papers she said he needed. She checked them sort of superficially, paper-clipped them together, and handed them back to him. Go wait over there, she said, and you will be called by name in a few minutes. She looked at me, too, as she said it. So I asked her, can I go in with my conjoint (spouse)? To my surprise, she said she didn't see why not. We went and sat down in the waiting room.

Thinking back on it a day or two ago, one other surprising thing about the préfecture visit was that there was absolutely no security to go through as we entered. Nobody checking the contents of purses or briefcases. No metal detectors. Nothing. Anybody could just walk in off the street. These days, that's strange.

Before long Walt's name was called. We walked down a hallway and went through door number 6 into a sort of office space. The woman we were meeting with didn't seem surprised to see two of us. She asked which one of us she was processing, and then I told her my story. Yes, she said, each person needs a separate rendez-vous, and that's true even for married couples. You'd think they could specify that on their web site, but never mind. The woman looked through Walt's papers, clipping documents together, entering information into her computer, and cutting apart the ID photos we had taken in a supermarket photo booth.

I hope N.C. waters are now back to looking like this, with the storm long gone.

After a minute or two, she looked up at us and said that the renewal application was very straightforward and it wouldn't take her long to process it, so she would go ahead and do mine as well. At one point, the gatekeeper/receptionist woman came into the office and told her colleague that she had explained to us that only one of us could be processed on that day, and that I would have to come back later. The woman processing the paperwork said, no, she was going to go ahead and process my application as well. It wouldn't take long. The receptionist mumbled something about that being okay if that was the best way to do things...

The other woman, who was friendly and efficient, looked at the paperwork and focused on the name of our village. She asked us where it was in relation to Blois — I guess she'd never heard of it. The receptionist who had popped in and told her it was pretty far from Blois, near Saint-Aignan — maybe a 40-minute drive. I interjected that we had allowed an hour and a half to make the trip, including time for finding a parking space near the préfecture and for preliminaries like standing in line. Oh, then I'll definitely process your application too, because that's a long drive. Now you know, and in 10 years when you come in for your next renewal, make sure that you schedule two separate appointments!

As she was entering data on the computer and clipping papers together, I mentioned that we had read somewhere that an applicant over the age of 60 or maybe 65 was supposed to be eligible for something called a carte de résident permanent. She said she would have to look up the requirements for that, and she did. Yes, she said. If you are over 60 — I'm 70, I told her — you are given a carte de résident permanent upon renewal of you first 10-year carte de résident. She said the "permanent" card would still carry an expiration date 10 years out, so I'm not sure what it all means, but I'll take it. The woman looked at Walt and asked him how old he was. Fifty-nine, he said. I added "and nine months!" Oh, too bad, the woman said, I guess you'll have to come back for another renewal in 10 years' time.

Then she pulled out a scanner and took a full set of our fingerprints to include in our files. Finally, she asked us to wait for a minute while she went and made us up temporary documents extending the expiration dates on our current resident's cards so that they would remain valid for three months longer. That's the récépissé I mentioned in an earlier post — the one the disagreeable receptionist had said they wouldn't be able to give us for a carte de résident. I wonder how that woman keeps her job, since she gives out so much bad information. I guess it's none of my business.

I can only assume that Cape Lookout lighthouse near Morehead City is still standing.

Not much more than 30 minutes after we had arrived, in spite of everything, we were out the door with our old resident's cards in hand, along with the récépissés that extend their validity. We were told our new cards should be ready for pick-up around the first week of October. I'm holding my breath, hoping there are no further snags.

The resident's card renewal appointment turned out to be as anti-climactic as Hurricane Dorian was around Morehead City in North Carolina. A lot of trees blew over in the 100 mph winds, there was some flooding, and there were extensive power outages, but there was little serious damage, as far as I can tell. On Ocracoke Island to the north, which is reachable only by air or boat and where about a thousand people live, the flooding was much worse. I guess more news will be reported about it all today. It's the middle of the night over there as I type this.

37 comments:

  1. Wow! What an ordeal; so stressful! But as you said earlier, Tout est bien qui finit bien or, as my old buddy Willie Shakespeare would say, All is well that ends well!

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  2. The worst stress came when we found out in June that we couldn't get an appointment for the residence permit renewal until September 3 when it was scheduled to expire on September 10. And then that woman on the phone told me that there was no document issued to prove that we had started the renewal process before the expiration date on the card. You are so lucky to have dual citizenship. Didn't you get it through USIA when you were being hired as a translator? Our case for citizenship and the process are so different.

    By the way, I hope you saw that I got an e-mail from my sister saying everything was okay where she lives. She's toward the western end of Carteret County, which is 50 miles (80 km) long from west to east. The hurricane went by to the east, and the strongest winds registered were on Cedar Island, the easternmost point of land in the county, at 110 mph (nearly 180 kph). By the way, the westernmost point of land in Carteret County is called Cedar Point. Morehead City and Beaufort are pretty much in the middle.

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    1. No, I became an American citizen before I was hired by USIA. I had been a contractuel for several months, and had to wait becoming a citizen before I could be hired permanently. That was on October 1978. I waited nine years before coming back to France late that year for the first time, this time with an American passport.

      As I said, I didn't have to renounce my French citizenship, because the US law has been changed a few years earlier. Dual citizenship is really great and makes things so much easier. A friend of mine, who is Japanese, has been working and living in the US for many years on a green card. Married to an American, she could easily become a citizen, but under Japanese law, she would lose her Japanese citizenship in doing so, so she stays on the green card.

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    2. Yes, I read the good news about your sister and Morehead City.

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    3. As Ellen said, France has never required its citizens to renounce their citizenship just because they also take citizenship in another country. The U.S. did require that for many years. For Americans, the law changed in the 1980s, I believe. But in the back of my mind is the question of the future of the U.S. When might they start to make it harder for people with dual citizenship to collect U.S. pensions, withdraw funds from American IRAs or 401k funds, or have bank accounts in two countries. For us, so far so good. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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    4. I get your point and I hope Donnie will be out of the way (in prison or dead) before that ever happens. MAGA!

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  3. Congratulations on your Carte de Résident Permanent.

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    1. Ellen, do you know anything about these permanent resident cards? Do they have to be renewed periodically or not, I wonder. I've done some googling but haven't found out much.

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    2. It looks like a carte de resident permanent doesn't need any renewal, but you don't get the perks afforded to citizenship only.

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    3. Where did you find that information, CHM?

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    4. Check carte de résident permanent at www.jurifiable.com

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    5. PS. Walt will have to wait a couple of years to get it.

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    6. Voici ce que je lis sur le site accessible par ton lien :

      A noter que la carte de résident permanent est délivrée pour une durée de 10 ans. Elle sera renouvelée pour une durée indéterminée à l’échéance.

      That's about as clear as mud.

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    7. I didn't read far enough. Here is what it says :
      A noter que la carte de résident permanent est délivrée pour une durée de 10 ans. Elle sera renouvelée pour une durée indéterminée à l’échéance.

      They don't say if the renewal is automatic. It might be!

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    8. Ken, lol! The script is so small on my tablet, I didn't notice you had already seen what I wrote about. As clear as mud, that's for sure.

      On the site www.service-public.fr I find, La validité de la carte de résident n'est pas limitée dans le temps.. They don't say if it has to be renewed once or not.

      Best way, I think, is to call the préfecture and ask them to clarify. Do you have the phone number of the nice lady?

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  4. quelle affaire ! contente pour vous pour vos papiers ainsi que pour votre soeur et vos amis.

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    1. C'est à des moments comme maintenant qu'on commence à se poser des questions. Qu'est-ce que je ferais si les autorités françaises refusaient notre demande de renouvellement de nos cartes de résident? On n'a pas de maison aux USA. On n'a problablement plus les moyens d'envoyer tous nos meubles et autres possessions là-bas, comme on a fait quand on est venu s'installer en France en 2003. On serait vraiment embêté. Avec seize années de résidence et de bonheur derrière nous, on serait malheureux ailleurs. Je réfléchis toujours à une future naturalisation, autrement dit. On verra.

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  5. Wow, I'm really glad for you that things worked out for you, and that the woman who actually processed the paperwork, was a reasonable and understanding person. That other woman... well... you know... there are people like that everywhere, aren't there! It's always so frustrating when you are, like you, an organized, think-ahead kind of person, who considers all of the possible consequences of not having every piece of paperwork in place (real and big consequences, as you outlined above!), takes it all very seriously, and does everything correctly and carefully, to follow the rules and regulations... only to be brushed off by some person who is full of herself, as if it's no big deal to end up left without properpapiers. We certainly (certainly!!) are seeing how that is affecting thousands of human beings in our country right now.
    So, congratulations! And, huge sigh of relief that your sister is okay, and damage isn't worse in her area.

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    1. Agree with all you say, Judy. I think that woman went into her conflict-avoidance mode when she realized I thought we had an appointment for two, not just one of us. I understand that she could get defensive. But still...

      The woman who processed our applications was impressed that we had filled out the application form by typing and printing rather that writing by hand. We do that in Photoshop, which lets you overlay text on a .jpg image of the form. My handwriting nowadays is pretty bad, ever since I broke the tendon of one of the fingers on my right hand. So it's better to do it on the computer. And yes, I'm much relieved that my sister and our friends escaped the hurricane basically unscathed.

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  6. Glad you have your papiers. The process very much reminds me of a lengthy visit to the Motor Vehicle Department in, well, pick your state.

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    1. I guess so. The last time I had to deal with DMV in person was in about 1987, when we moved to California. That was a long time ago. I already feel very relieved to have had the renewal application accepted. I will feel much more relieved once I have the new carte de résident in my hands.

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  7. Phew!!! I was anxious for your sister and the rest of your family and friends in N. Carolina. I tried to follow all the weather and even got out my atlas because I was frustrated that I never heard the words, "Morehead City" when the hurricane news was given.
    As for the Prefecture: That was indeed a happy ending that the woman made the right decision and took both of your applications! Hurray for Competence (using Trump's capitalization rules!!!) and not the red tape that usually occurs in governmental offices (I have experienced it in USA, France and Germany). And- congratulations to Walt for impressing her with his linguistic abilities...how about yours- I'm sure yours should have been commended as well!

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  8. This story has a happy ending. I hate to think of what you would have to go through if there were two meanies in charge. When I have to deal with situations like this, I usually start with "I hope you can help me". You kept your cool and won sympathy, others might have gotten angry and that won't help usually. I agree with you decision to not try for more (French citizenship) when you have a good enough situation.

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  9. My understanding is that the status of 'permanente' means you don't have to reapply ie prove your eligibility again, but the card needs to be renewed every 10 years. That's our current situation, anyway.

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    1. Susan, I think the same goes for passports and ID cards. They're valid for a number of years and then have to be renewed, but without the hassle of the first application, only if changes im status have occured in between.

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    2. I'm curious to know how you qualified for the permanent residence card. We were told that only an applicant who has already had one 10-year residence card and who is older than 60 can qualify for the permanent residence card.

      If you're under 60, you have to have had two 10-year cards before you can get the permanent residence card. In other words, I was granted a permanent card (only because I specifically asked for it, by the way) but Walt didn't qualify because he won't turn 60 until December. It could be that your situation is different because you already have citizenship in an EU country (maybe only temporarily...). The rules may well be different for people coming into France from non-EU countries like the U.S., but I don't know that for sure.

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  10. After reading these four posts, my head is spinning. I am curious if there are any new Visa requirements for short term tourists from the US to France now ( several weeks or so. )

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  11. Linda, With a US passport you can be in France for 90 days without a visa. (Probably more, if you just stay, and I think some do, just as they do stateside.) It's also 90 days for US citizens in other European countries.

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    1. Traveling with a US passport, I come to France every year and stay four or five months with no visa. How do they know, when leaving to return to the US, that I am a dual citizen, since I was asked for my French ID card only once, if I recall correctly? Is it the fact that I was born in Paris, as shown on my psssport? Or do they care if I overstayed a ninety-day stay or not?

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    2. CHM, the immigration service's computerized files probably show that you are French. When I arrive in the U.S., the people at immigration in the airport seem to know that I live in France.

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    3. Linda, Emm is right, as far as I know. You can enter France as a tourist and stay for 90 days without any kind of visa, just your passport. The passport must not have an expiration date that is less than three months after your planned return date to the U.S. When you buy a plane ticket, the airlines will tell you that you have to have a return ticket fore departure less than 90 days out from your departure date. I think that as an American you can spend only 90 days total out of any 180-day period in France without a long-stay visa. You must have either a visa, a French residence card, or stay less than 90 days, with a return ticket to prove it. That's my understanding. To get a visa you have to prove that you have enough money to stay here without seeking employment. It's all pretty complicated, and disclaimer: I am not an expert.

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  12. Hi Ken, does this French service-public link explain it any better? I was going to ask if you and Walt could have gone to Romorantin as the sous-préfecture (a bit closer to home?), but I see that the site says some don't process residence cards, and that you should access your local prefecture website to check.
    https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F11201
    Hth

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    1. Thanks That service-public site, which I had seen, does say that La validité de la carte de résident n'est pas limitée dans le temps. However, many other official-looking sites say that the card must be renewed every 10 years. Even the woman who processed our renewal application at the préfecture said the permanent residence card would have an expiration date 10 years out printed on it. She also said the rules change periodically and the process might be entirely different by 2029. I think the sous-préfecture in Romorantin does not deal with residence or specific issues for foreigners, though I do plan to go over there soon to try to exhange my old pink, fold-out driver's license for a new credit-card-size license. The only time Walt and I ever went to the Romo office was to have his name added to the registration papers (carte grise) for our car so that if something happened to me he would own it free and clear. That day, the computers were down and we were turned away. Now that we are legally married, ownership of the car is not an issue.

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  13. Phew! Whar a relief about your residence permit(s). But from all the complaints there are about our Home Office's bureaucracy (not to mention exorbitant fees and charges), we in the UK have no basis for criticising the French. I suppose there's always some "computer says no" jobsworth in any organisation: some sorts of job seem to attract them for some reason.

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  14. This has been very interesting. I have been to the prefecture only twice--on arrival and then for the renewal after 10 years (already five years ago). Both times I was struck by how incredibly disorganized and pushy the other applicants were. There's a photocopy machine that costs 20 centimes a page or something, and the line was SO long. Why? We made photocopies at home. Even if we didn't have a printer/copier (which I'm sure everybody in line did), I would have done it cheaper and ahead of time at a shop. And after standing in line for 30 minutes, people would get to the front and only then realize they didn't have the right change. For crying out loud. I watched as people left the meeting rooms to come out and plead to cut in line for copies of this or that. When it was finally my turn, my husband and I were in there for five minutes. All papers in order, with photocopies in order. The woman handling my dossier just kept shaking her head. As she tapped the papers into neat piles, she said, "If everybody would come in with their paperwork like this, my job would be wonderful." So I think the bristly reactions of the prefecture employees comes from dealing with lots of people who aren't following the rules, who maybe shouldn't be granted residency and are hoping to skate by in a cloud of confusion or who just get mad at THEM for having come unprepared. As soon as you showed, in person, you were no-problem applicants who made an understandable mistake based on past experience, they cut you slack, because French bureaucracy only has a mean bark but doesn't bite.

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