It's a funny language we "anglophones" have. As a native language, it spans an island or two and a couple of continents. As a second language, it's everywhere. Nobody will be surprised to learn that we have big differences in terminology and vocabulary from one place to another around the world. For one cooking and food example, what does the word "pie" mean? In America, it means a sweet or savory filling or garnish baked on a single pastry crust (pumpkin pie, sweet potato pie, chess pie, lemon meringue pie, key lime pie) or baked between a bottom crust (apple pie, among so many others) and a top crust. It's all pie to us, and pie means sweet unless you specify "chicken pot pie" or some other savory "meat pie" variation.
Walt made a savory mushroom tart (or pie?) for lunch yesterday — sauteed mushrooms with mustard, cream (crème fraîche), fresh thyme, and shavings of Parmesan cheese baked on top of a standard pie crust, or pâte brisée. We had it with grilled beefsteak.
There are a lot of British people here in France, and language makes it easy for Yanks, Aussies, and Brits to get to know each other, but we Americans are a very small minority. I also watch a certain amount of news given in British English by media outlets like Sky News, CNN Europe, and BBC World. In British English, a pie seems to be what is called a tourte in French, and the single-crust pie like our American pumpkin pie is called a tart — une tarte en français. It might be a distinction without much of a difference, but it exists. We use the term "tart" in U.S. English too, but not so much. There's something exotic-sounding about the word "tart" for us.
And just think about the word "pudding" in the English language. In England, and I suppose in Wales, Scotland, and maybe Ireland too, "pudding" is a generic word that means "dessert", from what I've gathered. Say you're invited to lunch or dinner by English friends. They might ask you to bring the "pudding" or the "pud" — pronounce it like the word "put" but with a D instead of the T. That can be confusing, because in U.S. English "pudding" is a specific preparation that might also be called "custard". Custard is made with eggs and is often called "egg custard" while a U.S. pudding is often made with cornstarch (fécule de maïs, which I've heard referred to as "corn flour" by British speakers) and contains no eggs. A cake or pie (or tart) would never be referred to as a "pudding" in America.
For me, British English is a major distraction, actually. I have heard myself say, many times, that I didn't come to France to learn British English — I came here to continue learning French. Imagine! For me, a passive understanding of British English is all that's needed, but I need an active command of French because I live here. I'll never try to actually speak British English, while I speak French daily. Another thing I say is that while I'm ethnically "English", I'll never be British.
If you want to get a better idea of the millions of differences between British English usage and American English usage — it's not just about accent, but about grammar, vocabulary, cultural references, and idioms — there's an interesting blog about it all called Separated by a Common Language. The author is an American-born linguist who lives and works in the United Kingdom. And have a look at this article from the BBC about "silly" British terms and expressions...
My contribution to yesterday's lunch was bread pudding. That's stale bread soaked in a kind of pudding or custard (eggs, cream, sugar) and baked in the oven with fruit (blueberries in this case). I flavored it with rum and used one cup of coconut milk and one cup of crème fraîche liquide in the custard.
And just think about the word "pudding" in the English language. In England, and I suppose in Wales, Scotland, and maybe Ireland too, "pudding" is a generic word that means "dessert", from what I've gathered. Say you're invited to lunch or dinner by English friends. They might ask you to bring the "pudding" or the "pud" — pronounce it like the word "put" but with a D instead of the T. That can be confusing, because in U.S. English "pudding" is a specific preparation that might also be called "custard". Custard is made with eggs and is often called "egg custard" while a U.S. pudding is often made with cornstarch (fécule de maïs, which I've heard referred to as "corn flour" by British speakers) and contains no eggs. A cake or pie (or tart) would never be referred to as a "pudding" in America.
For me, British English is a major distraction, actually. I have heard myself say, many times, that I didn't come to France to learn British English — I came here to continue learning French. Imagine! For me, a passive understanding of British English is all that's needed, but I need an active command of French because I live here. I'll never try to actually speak British English, while I speak French daily. Another thing I say is that while I'm ethnically "English", I'll never be British.
If you want to get a better idea of the millions of differences between British English usage and American English usage — it's not just about accent, but about grammar, vocabulary, cultural references, and idioms — there's an interesting blog about it all called Separated by a Common Language. The author is an American-born linguist who lives and works in the United Kingdom. And have a look at this article from the BBC about "silly" British terms and expressions...
In the U.S., rice pudding is just plain riz au lait.
ReplyDeleteI have recipes where it's called gâteau de riz. Monique Maine's recipe, for example...
Deleteyummy
ReplyDeleteInteresting post Ken. Well, I think if you say "tart" in America, you're not referring to a pie, but to a temptress, lol. And "pie," here, is rarely savory anymore. I remember pot pies were so popular in the 60s and 70s, but I don't see much of them now.
ReplyDeleteI would be happy to learn British English, though, by acquiring a Received Pronunciation accent, lol.
I think that overlap of tart, being a temptress or a topless pie (!), is why Americans say pie instead. "Tarts" are French, lol.
DeleteSo much of this food stuff has to do with climate. England is so chilly and damp that meat pies are comfort food. In warmer climates, we'd rather have grilled meats, not stewed.
I generally say "tart" for what others in the US call a quiche or a pie.
DeleteEnglish is so often the second language of the world and that makes it so easy- or too easy - for those of us from where it is our first. Perhaps it is also the first language of the Internet and the US of A rather than now what is is spoken in Great Britain. I am English, British and European at least that was what was written by me on my school books!
ReplyDeleteI eat apple pie with two layers of pastry and pear tart or flan with just the bottom layer of pastry. Fish pie has no pastry.
An English friend made a fish pie one day when we were invited to lunch. It has a layer of mashed potato on top, right, instead of pastry. It was delicious.
DeleteI consider myself English by extraction / ethnicity. My mother says we are Irish, from Ulster. We were Protestant, Baptists, by tradition, not Catholic. I think my ancestors were Scots or northern English who emigrated to Ulster and then went on to the U.S. in the 1780s. English is our ancestral, native language, but with an American flavor now, of course.
I just thought of shepherd's pie and cottage pie as two other examples of pies that have no pastry crust.
DeleteAlong the ( SW French) road from us is a Canadian who blogs about life and food. He once mentioned minced duck under the potato topping as a local 'dish'. We now have added canada pie to the list of shepherd and cottage.
DeleteI think the English are more likely to call a temptress a tart than we Americans are. To me a tart implies what the French would probably call a tartelette. And they are nice in any languages!
ReplyDeleteA pie here without qualification, will be a beef in gravy enclosed in pastry. It is considered a filling snack food. There are many variations and spices etc (chicken and mushroom sounds vile to me), but the former is the basic pie. I rather like a pepper steak pie. We don't say pudding here, unless it is pudding. We used to say sweets, but now as our language is continually poshified, dessert seems to dominate.
ReplyDeleteOh, the poshification of the language!
DeleteI'm not sure it is "poshification" — it's Americanization. The French were the Americans' allies against the British monarchy in the 1770s and 1780s. I think French term came into the language back then. You use a lot of French terms in British English, but not the same ones we Americans use. Dessert, for example. Or your courgettes and aubergines. We have other names for those.
DeleteWow, Betsy and Doug would love that mushroom tart! And your beautiful bread pudding -- with blueberries! Our favorites!
ReplyDeleteJudy
I always think of Tarts as being smaller than a pie, more like a single serving, hold in your hand sort of pastry.
ReplyDeleteNot only were the French allies but there were quite a lot of French people who immigrated to America ..
If I hear an American asking about "aubergines", it sounds false to me, pretentious ..
Meanwhile .. Living in the US South, I am up to my eyeballs in eggplant and zucchini and plan on turning up the A/C and making a big pot of ratatouille .. I will serve it as a Side and/or as a sauce for pasta .
Thanks for the link to "Separated by a Common Language". Looks very intersting.
ReplyDeleteWhat I grew up with was a Tart is a pie or quiche, topless pie ... no crust on top. *I grew up in NC*
ReplyDeleteA Tart, is a Trollop, Hussy, slut ..... etc ...
I second the idea that in the UK "pie" (unspecified) might be assumed to be savoury in many variations - pork or game pie (cold, with raised hotwater pastry, for picnics), Scotch pie (minced mutton), or beef and onion or whatever's in the hot pies they sell at halftime at football matches (as in the crowd chant "Who Ate All the Pies?" - usually aimed at the chunkiest of the opposing team's players). If we mean a sweet fruit pie, we'd usually specify it (except of course that mince pie is sweet and fruity and has no mincemeat in it, just to confuse the rest of the world).
ReplyDeleteHave to correct you there, Autolycus, mince pies do contain mincemeat, it's the the savoury ones that are made of "mince" which is simply coarsley-ground meat, whereas "mincemeat" is the christmassy concoction of fruit etc which centuries back also contained some meat in it, hence the addition of the word "meat".
DeleteI thought the "meat" in "mincemeat" had to do with the suet that used to be included in the mixture. In America, there's is no meat in mincemeat.
DeleteMy grandfather was a chef and you can imagine how his grandchildren loved his baking days ..
ReplyDeleteAnd you could count on him to come walking through the house, booming out his questions .. "Who Ate All The Pies ?" lol
What you made, Ken, was in B-English Bread and Butter pudding, "bread pudding" is another concoction entirely!
ReplyDeleteYour dialect, my dialect. The point of my post exactly. Who says you are right and I am wrong. I'm backed up by 325 million Americans...
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